Western Airlines Flight 2605 was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles to Mexico City. control. Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe, Classic Airliners has he? The sites we usually use for research won't say more than the above. LAST WORDS ON FLIGHT: BRACE CHARLES! He Do we know this is correct? If you found this video to be interesting, be sure to subscribe as there is a new video every Saturday. He discredits ALPAs conclusions. A key result of the engine detachment and hydraulic failure was the atypical slat retraction of the DC-10 in these circumstances. Ironically the article is surrounded by more pages of advertisements than its total page count. Mexico and the US both consider tourism to be critically important. He considers this to be the collision with the truck and the right landing gear, not the touchdown. On the other. So the Government was clearly crashing its own credibility by the 1980s. SquisherDa (talk) 10:16, 24 October 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], And, thinking of sources - do we have the CVR? Aircraft type McDonnell Douglas DC-10-10Operator Western AirlinesRegistration N903WAFlight origin Los Angeles Int'l AirportLos Angeles, California, United St. Our large helicopter section. [3] how about the poor general aviation pilot, what chance Here are some ideas: - paragraph added at 20:21 + amended at 20:22, 19 December 2019 (unsigned contributions) by 173.120.214.74, Lay readers still have no idea what a "more than 2g force landing" means. More curious is the fact that Gilbert had just written up Reichel and had a meeting with him the day of the flight although that was said to have been amicably concluded. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. American Eagle flight 4184, an ATR 72 flying from IND to ORD, crashed in Northern Indiana on October 31, 1994, which was 25 years ago yesterday. - paragraph added at 17:40 + amended at 17:43 and 17:46, 24 November (unsigned contributions) by 173.120.148.69, and 23:37, 30 November (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.180.238, and 01:17 and 03:22, 1 December 2019 (unsigned contributions) by 173.153.15.41, Would touching down (2 g) on the left wheels have elicited such an ominous outcry? port and the hassle he usually received from the air traffic A United States federal law deregulated the airline industry in the United States in 1978, removing the federal government control over such areas as fares, routes, and market entry of new airlines, i.e the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978. . Is this necessary? Flying Magazine discredits the ALPA report. You can also try to find a copy of David Grayson '"Terror in the Skies", published by W.H.Allen (London, England, 1989), which has a chapter dealing with that particular accident. I have cleaned up the background. Gilbert, Reichel and Walsh flew the Night Owl route on October 31 as a back up crew. For additional details, refer to our Privacy Policy. None of these higher authorities performed as required by law and regulation to make sure the buck stopped sooner. Other entries are my opinions as well. This would certainly result in limited to no control over the aircraft. We thank you for your support and hope you'll join the largest aviation community on the web. It should be mentioned (perhaps in the main article) that if 2605 had somehow landed "properly" on the "wrong" runway 23L, the accident probably wouldn't have happened. Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos. surface altitude of over 7,000 feet. Cause: Crashed into construction equipment during landing on a closed runway or pilot errorAircraft: McDonnell Douglas DC-10-10Operator: Western AirlinesPass. Western 2605 was a crash in Mexico City that killed 72 people. Cookie Notice Western Airlines Flight 2605 19 Reply kapotchaboii 1 yr. ago Airplane lands accidantaly on the wrong runway half in the grass, half in the shoulder, try to power up the engines for a new try. Otherwise his assertions aren't serious. Crew fatigue is believe to have been a contributing cause. This is most certainly not what happened. Using the internet archive I was able to locate an archived copy of the airdisaster.com page with the wav file listed (May 2006), but the wav file itself (wal2605.wav) had not been archived. Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft, Special Paint Schemes Flight 2605 remains the deadliest air accident to have occurred in Mexico City. BY AR385 - Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:03 am - Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:03 am #10741679. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. these human factors were identified by the investigation Pilot error but more directly false ILS signal phenomenon. While searching for the Western Airlines 2605, Mexico City, 1979 accident I discovered that there is nothing at all on the web. Flying Magazine is not a credible source. Views from inside the cockpit, Aircraft Cabins Gilbert too was questionable, spending part of the time prior to the flight flying long distance in a private aircraft before getting some sleep. Those locks prevent an unbalanced aerodynamic condition in which one wing has more lift than the other. - para break moved by 173.120.246.108 (unsigned contribution), at 20:30, 25 December 2019, Can you or I elucidate a point that otherwise sounds just as convincing as Garrison's op-ed? A July 19th, 1989 United DC-10 crash was caused by an engine failure which damaged the hydraulic system and reduced control to a point that the pilots could utilize only engine power to prepare the aircraft for an emergency landing. Our large helicopter section. This wreckage continued aft, tearing away all and our Maybe if the pilot saw obstructions ahead. ground and simultaneously struck i dump truck loaded with gravel. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. sition to the parallel operating runway at an airport with a Making things even more confusing the recorder was apparently pierced and an erase mechanism was reported to have been briefly actuated. On top of all this, the have to deal with: a fog bound low Visibility approach, an - paragraph added at 23:02 + amended at 23:09, 30 November (unsigned contributions) by 173.153.180.238 and at 01:17, 1 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41, Engine power indications were virtually unchanged until about 9 seconds or profound horror - perhaps with a terrible awareness of the fate of the plane. A few years later the public would be told an Air Florida 737 that crashed into a DC bridge was mostly because the pilots weren't from "the North". 2012-06-29, 13:43. comments sorted by Best Top New Controversial Q&A Add a Comment . I've compiled some thoughts that I've placed under yours that I've read from reports of the accidents, both FAA and ICAO. (Did they know where they were more specifically?) By logging into your account, you agree to our. What happened was it was 3am, they were all half asleep on the job and descended into the ground, and one main gear happened to come into contact with a closed runway. " Might be good to add that detail. Ironically this hearsay reaches the same conclusion: the pilots were to blame. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Flight 2605 remains the deadliest air accident to have occurred in Mexico City. - paragraph added at 15:33, 22 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.124, From the publication DOT/FAA/PM-86/46 "Aeronautical Decision Making - Cockpit Resource Management" investigator observations within 24 hours of the accident: - paragraph added at 22:43 (and amended 22:44 and 22:45 x2), 29 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.184.130, "Main electrical wires to the approach lighting system and VAst for 23 left were observed to be disconnected. American Eagle flight 4184, an ATR 72 flying from IND to ORD, crashed in Northern Indiana on October 31, 1994, which was 25 years ago yesterday. For more information, please see our https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpQWYdByNSg, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1DlBRS0PiE. There was still a major section of the plane sitting there that had burned. The aircraft did not hit particularly hard - the left wheels on the side of 23L only - 2 g of force is not "hard" or that unusual according to reports on the DC-10 or other aircraft for that matter. - section created at 20:35, 1 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.9.109, There are historical examples of flights that end in accidents where pilot(s) will try to land in dangerous conditions, crosswinds or penetrate dangerous storm systems. But this may already have long been determined to be the left wheel touchdown - but I haven't read a report specifically stating this yet. Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.61.11.102 (talk) 22:05, 4 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply], - section created (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.148.69 at 17:40, 24 November 2019, This section states that the pilot saw the dump truck and then exclaimed "..Jesus Christ". When I first started reading the links, I thought they were just to the left of 23R. Its a plane which certainly has a divided history. Talk:Western Airlines Flight 2605 - Wikipedia It ought to be (if at all possible). Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft Things moved very quickly. Wikipedia:WikiProject Disaster management, "In continuing toward 23L below [decision height, 600ft aal], by definition the crew was deviating from their cleared approach", "stayed on the correct flight path to Runway 23 Right for most of the time between the outer marker "Metro Eco" and [the] Airport, and only deviated to the runway closed to traffic (23 Left) when at a height of (600 feet) above the ground during .. final approach", https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a205115.pdf, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Western_Airlines_Flight_2605&oldid=1085896060, B-Class United States articles of Low-importance, High-importance Disaster management articles, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0. Western Airlines Flight 2605 Crash With CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder) Vintage news cast with low volume CVR but informational at beginning Louder CVR with no introduction LAST WORDS SAID BY CAPTAIN: JESUS CHRIST! - paragraph added at 00:00, 31 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.182.80, His credibility has been questioned but he is persuasive. Pictures of great freighter aircraft, Government Aircraft ", - section created at 20:44, 30 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.131.243, Eduardo Valenciana has written a book containing a fair amount of material dedicated to the flight and the events of the crash: " Jumpseat, A Tale of Twisted Fate". Pictures of great freighter aircraft, Government Aircraft This penetration came in contact with the erasure circuit sending a momentary electrical impulse to the bulk eraser, causing a wedge- shaped segment of the tape to be erased.". The front wheels never touched the runway until perhaps the aircraft was destroyed. Consider the following: Western Airlines knew its pilots had landed on the "wrong" runway previously, or they should have, as did Mexican authorities. This is incorrect information from the control tower at Mexico City (assuming the ICAO circular Section 1.8.2 is accurate). seems to say the following: " We're (He's?) I've compiled some thoughts that I've placed under yours that I've read from reports of the accidents, both FAA and ICAO. CVR of Western Airlines 2605, terrifying : r/CrazyFuckingVideos - Reddit The report also mentions the altitude callouts required from Reichel might have been made, or partially made, but probably weren't anyway. Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Crash Recording : r/MorbidReality - Reddit At that point, the right main gear lifted off the I denoised the CVR so you can hear the voices better. for about 400 feet on the main landing gear. I emailed the gracious Mr. Valenciana and he tells me his description of the crash in his book mentions a violent initial impact. Consider the false instrument landing system (ILS) glideslope indication which was said to have caused Korean Air Flight 801 to smash into a hill outside of Guam in 1997. We may share certain information about our users with our advertising and analytics partners. with them. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. Western Airlines Flight 2605 Crash With CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder). (Right?) I saw an article some time ago about this flight and there was reference to the captain not have too much confidence in the FO (who was German); so, there appears to have been some tension in the cockpit. Other entries are my opinions as well. Gilbert had limited or no control over the plane after the collision with the dump truck. All three crew agreed they were on the wrong side 23L but of course it was at a point too late. ed the knowledge to deal with the human aspect identified Consider joining here from 1 per month: https://www.patreon.com/DisasterBreakdownTwitter: https://twitter.com/Chloe_HowieCBMusic/Personal Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOwQGtbF_x7ODL1U_A61IQgTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/chloe_canariabirdThe year of 1979, to be honest, was a terrible year for one of the worlds Largest passenger plane. As an example, there is an immediate inconsistencies about what the tower is told the crew about approach lights and the ICAO report on the condition of those lights.[/quote]. general avtation will probably have to wait a long time. Our large helicopter section. Western Airlines 2605 | CVR Redux - YouTube Aircraft flying government officials, Helicopters Key details are the same: 23L was closed, 23R was the open runway with a NOTAM many days before. They had "stayed on the correct flight path to Runway 23 Right for most of the time between the outer marker "Metro Eco" and [the] Airport, and only deviated to the runway closed to traffic (23 Left) when at a height of (600 feet) above the ground during .. final approach": it looks as if they were intending to maintain a lateral separation from the ILS path (to 23L) so as to keep them in line to come straight in to 23R. So the CVR may in fact be missing details. Airliners.net is the leading community for discovering and sharing high-quality aviation photography. Western 2605 In MEX - New Pics - Airliners.net Moreover the CEO of Western was not confused by the actions of one of his pilots even though he publicly stated that he was. Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.61.11.230 (talk) 21:25, 4 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]. found him noticeably upset about the trip to Mexico City. Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft Luxury homes for sale in Saint-Ismier, Auvergne-Rhne-Alpes, France $73. Pilot Gilbert got on the power (100%) before the impact with the truck and after Reichel calmly called to go around after everyone agreed they were at 23L. Western Airlines Flight 2605 LAX-MEX '79 #10741679. We know that runway 23L was closed to traffic that day, as the runway was being resurfaced. It is strange. I can't guess why it would be hard to obtain. - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, Finally, I have read no analysis of the final statement that one of the 3 man crew says loudly under Gilbert's screams. instrument letdown to a closed runway and a difficult tran This thread is the most recent on Western 2605 on this website, so I thought I would add to it from here so that others might follow a google link and learn something as I have about this crash. I'm trying to find reliable online information to expand on the very short account of Western Airlines flight 2605 which landed on the wrong runway at Mexico City airport on 31 October 1979 and burst into flames after hitting construction equipment. He expressed serious concern about the approach to the air Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries, Airport Overviews Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft Your destination for buying luxury property in Saint-Ismier, Auvergne-Rhne-Alpes, France. What happened was it was 3am, they were all half asleep on the job and descended into the ground, and one main gear happened to come into contact with a closed runway. " Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon, Accidents On October 31, 1979, the aircraft used for the flight, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10, crashed at Mexico City's Benito Juarez International Airport in early morning fog after landing on a runway closed for maintenance. Western Airlines Flight 2605 - PLANE CRASH TRANSCIPT Aircraft flying government officials, Helicopters Why was the construction contractor permitted to have equipment all over (or along the side of) the runway with the ILS system? Altitude callouts were required and may not have been done, but the ILS wasn't known to be giving erroneous readings but the plane 'half-landed',straight in to 23L, no flare, and half in the grass. I'd like to reply to yours as well. ATC: "O.K., sir, approach lights are on the runway 23 left, but that runway is closed to traffic.". One of my concerns with the article prior to the 12/4 revision is that it stated Gilbert saw the truck and then said "Jesus Christ!". Most of the public is or was under the impression that safety would never be negatively impacted by sweeping "free market" legislation. Western Airlines 2605 | CVR With Subtitles - YouTube Apparently the official transcript is not quite correct so I'll put my interpretation in the captions. A final point he makes concerning the catastrophe is difficult to disagree with: it was much easier to just blame the pilots for the accident because dead men tell no tales. As the closed, wrong Runway where the DC-10 crashed was the closest to the street (where the passengers arrive to the Benito Juarez International Airport) as the one under repair, the correct one where the flight had to land was probably Runway 23L, this can be confirmed as the many photos of the remains of the airplane, mainly the gas turbine sitting on the pavement is shown close to the street, thus the WRONG (Closed) runway has to be 23R. In addition, he was having enough of a problem CVR of Western Airlines 2605, terrifying. To be continued.. - paragraph added at 01:17, 1 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41, - section created by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019 (+ heading amended by 173.120.246.108 at 20:40, 25 December 2019) - unsigned contributions, How much information is too much information? 1979 Western Airlines 2605 information? - PPRuNe Forums If anyone is familiar with this accident, you'll understand why I'm so curious about it. Western Airlines 2605 | CVR Redux 31 views Aug 23, 2022 Western Airlines Flight 2605, nicknamed the "Night Owl", was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles,. Western Airlines 2605 CVR, Much Clearer Vocals, with Actually - YouTube Ernst Reichel, the second officer, did not call out altitude descent during a crucial stage of landing - this fact has been mentioned in crash reports as a key contributor to the disaster. The violent crashing is clearly heard. All of them involved pilot fatigue, either from (But the pilots did anyway, probably as they did far more often that didn't end in some kind of horrific hull loss, and perhaps as Gilbert was doing in '79. ) It might be fake, but then with it being a non-US crash, it might have leaked out? Airport overviews from the air or ground, Tails and Winglets - paragraph amended at 21:05, 30 December by 173.120.131.243 and 00:00, 31 December 2019 by 173.120.182.80 (unsigned contributions), Bordering on the fantastic Eduardo claims the Mexican police kidnapped him and were trying to force him to sign confessions or affidavits stating the pilots were drunk on liquor he had served them during the flight. (American Airlines 1420) Pilots exhibited more recklessness if they fell behind schedule especially if landing at night and other aircraft landed successfully before them. The "impossible" happened about 3 years after the plane's first commercial flight. Follow. The final moments of the pilots will make your hair stand on end. We thank you for your support and hope you'll join the largest aviation community on the web. Note that the L1011 and B747 of the same era would lock the slats outward in the event of hydraulic fluid loss. "ALPA's purpose in large part was to exonerate the crew", "ALPA's attempt to identify causes highlights the mobility of that shapeless fluid thing called "blame". Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR. . Stay at this 4-star business-friendly hotel in Meylan. - paragraph amended at 20:24 by 68.33.74.40 and at 20:30 and 20:31 by 173.120.246.108, 25 December 2019 (unsigned contributions), Please consider the following lines from the final page of his article as it appeared in Flying. As a consequence, they will not be dealt with; they As an example, there is an immediate inconsistencies about what the tower is told the crew about approach lights and the ICAO report on the condition of those lights.[/quote]. Cockpit crew coordina Something down the lines that one of the runways (sounded like 5R by his description) was closed for maintenance, but ATC told the flight that it was cleared to land on the closed runway (because he was probably used to saying 5R so many times before, as, You can find the CVR tapes on airdisaster.com. The nose gear did not contact Views from inside the cockpit, Aircraft Cabins The L1011 had the ability to 'land itself' with the proper equipment installed at the airfield. This explanation is not addressed by our article as it stands. that would have shown the ILS inaccuracy. Visit Saint-Ismier: 2022 Travel Guide for Saint-Ismier - Expedia McDonnell Douglas made a design change and moved the location of the hydraulic lines from the floor to the ceiling, as the under floor mounted lines were crushed by the collapse of the floor following decompression in that crash. Is the ALPA report secret or proprietary? A part of the CVR is widely available online. Is the earlier contributer, above, right tht there was disagreement in the cockpit? Plenty of people look back on the aircraft with fondness as an iconic piece of 20th century aviation. AR385. This is what I have gathered this far: Some forum posts from 2004-2005 claiming there is "a wealth of material" on google. The separation also caused an electrical power failure, critically affecting cockpit indicators. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. Yet the idea that some pettiness contributed to the disaster continues to appear from time to time. This section cites the youtube CVR clip which really doesn't make sense because there is no way to ascertain those details from the audio recording. 1 mois de voyages illimits. Flight 2605 remains the deadliest air accident to have occurred in Mexico City. The widely recognized, deeply systemic problems of control by market forces means any article is going to be edited to surrender to those market forces. Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin, Night Photos We'll never know because of the damage to the CVR: "The possibility exists that the callouts were made but erased in that portion of the CVR tape; however, it is highly unlikely that this was accomplished. Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe, Classic Airliners then realised rather late tht they were now on the ILS path so this must be 23L - wrong runway - and they better go around. However, this could very well have been the initial touchdown. The reason he feels this way was because of the potential for damaging political and economic fallout. It has been said that the crew was in a strong disagreement, and that the pilot continued the landing in spite of first officer strong disagreement. (?) Western Airlines Flight 2605 Crash With CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder). - paragraph added at 20:21 + amended at 20:23, 19 December 2019 (unsigned contributions) by 173.120.214.74, - section created at 15:12, 22 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.124. [3] The single weather condition noted most often with flight 2605 is heavy fog. The damage sustained by the aircraft after impact with the truck was such that continued control flight was not possible. Required to reach a conclusion? right for a mistake and an accident. their compatability. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright . Views from inside the cockpit, Aircraft Cabins There is no official report that we know of that gives any credence to this rumor. As Flight 2605 approached Mexico City International Airport, air traffic controllers cleared it for an instrument approach using the ILS of Runway 23L, with an expected landing runway of 23R. Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public.